The Beijing Olympics, the Shanghai Expo, the hundreds of Confucius Institutes and Confucius Classrooms, and Beijing's new English-language satellite news networks are all part of a grand Chinese soft power push: an effort to win the world through attraction rather than coercion. But how is China's charm offensive playing around the world? This week, Sinica looks at different facets of soft power and asks whether China is making or breaking its public image.

Joining host Kaiser Kuo this week are Jeremy Goldkorn of the blog Danwei.org; Gady Epstein, Beijing bureau chief for Forbes magazine; and Evan Osnos, Beijing-based staff writer for The New Yorker and part-time enforcer in Kuo's outlaw e-biker gang. We're also proud to have extra commentary from Adam Minter, an American writer in Shanghai who brings us stories from his first-hand encounter with the 2010 Expo.

If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to give us your take on things either in the comment section, or by writing us at sinica@popupchinese.com. And remember, to subscribe to the Sinica show through RSS, just open up iTunes, click on the "Advanced" menu and select "Subscribe to Podcast". When prompted, copy the URL http://popupchinese.com/feeds/custom/sinica into the box. Those of you who'd like to download this mp3 directly from our site can also grab it as a standalone mp3 file. Enjoy!
 said on
May 7, 2010
I'm with Jeremy on this one. Stay off the "Silent Killers" and ride the flying steel pigeon.

Daily Show Funny Man- Rob Riggle.
 said on
May 7, 2010
Hey thanks, that's right, Rob Riggle. Doh!
 said on
May 7, 2010
The popup chinese team is well juiced to attract names with impressive credentials for this sinca podcast. I'm impressed - a high quality listen. Thanks again.
 said on
May 7, 2010
@rizzo,

The credit is pretty much all Kaiser's actually. As he says, we're pleased to host the show and be able to take care of some of the recording and editing legwork. That said, I'm delighted that we're able to host it. Hopefully there will be many more to come.

Cheers,

--dave
 said on
May 8, 2010
solid podcast, keep em comin. hopefully i'll be stoppin by the expo next month
 said on
May 8, 2010
I'm really digging your podcast. Keep it up.
 said on
May 8, 2010
Thanks for the kind words Rizzo, Mattjustinkelly, and Alex E. We'll definitely keep 'em coming! Would love your topic suggestions or ideas for guests to have on. We have some real superstars from the world of journalism, economics, and academia all lined up for the coming weeks and months.
 said on
May 8, 2010
Thanks to all involved. Excellent overview of lots of the major focus points of Chinese soft power issues. I think many of these points could serve as a topic for a 40 minute podcast of their own as time allows in the future. Other soft power issues I'd like to hear more about are tourism and the rapidly increasing numbers of westerners learning Chinese.

Thanks again for the great discussion!
 said on
May 9, 2010
Expo as soft power? Sounds like traditional hard power at work, with the Chinese gov't. footing the bill for many pavilion expenses, and others feeling obliged, according to some reports, lest they risk offending Beijing. Perhaps I am missing out on what soft power means, but if the Expo were a measure of Chinese soft power, wouldn't other countries be clamouring to attend at any cost?

Discussion of cultural exports, esp. film, as being severely limited due to censorship. It seems to me that Hollywood came of age with no small amount of censorship and meddling, albeit from the studio system. Are prospects for Chinese exports under the current SARFT restrictions really so bleak?

Really enjoying these podcasts! Thanks for the discussion!
 said on
May 9, 2010
Somewhat on topic here -- I actually spent an afternoon at the annual Confucius Institute conference earlier this year and got to see some pretty ineffectual soft power in action. The impetus for this was an email Popup Chinese received inviting us to pay them for the privilege of running a booth at their convention. We passed on the offer but I headed down to check out the conference on its first afternoon: the only attendees were Hanban-funded organizations and a few publishers.

So for all the fuss, there are a lot of things which signal to me that the organization really doesn't "get it" yet. They may be spending a lot of money, but the cash seems to go overwhelmingly towards (1) corrupt internal programs, (2) minor university programs abroad which benefit perhaps tens of students per year, and (3) cultural missions such as performing arts tours where the direct financial beneficiaries are also mainland Chinese. These also seem strangely disconnected - one of the common complaints I heard was that local schools are often given little or no notification of performing tours.

Probably also worth mentioning that one of the reasons for the hostility towards the Confucius Institute in California is that Taiwan has historically been very active in supplying teachers and providing direct funding for students, and California has a large number of people with an ethnic Chinese background who do not consider themselves to have much in common with the Chinese government. China would be better served (in my opinion) to provide more direct funding for US and foreign students to take immersion programs in China than what they are doing now. In that sense, the fact that there is even a battle for influence is a sign of the mainland's organizational weakness more than anything.

 said on
May 9, 2010
How do you have an intellectual podcast on soft power without defining the term? What's soft power?
 said on
May 9, 2010
Also, assuming that you guys mean "cultural power" when you say "soft power" -- in contrast to "hard" economic and military power, I'd have to disagree that the U.S.'s putting up a World Expo pavilion is an example of Chinese soft power. The U.S. originally was not going to build a pavilion. It only started raising funds after China made it clear that not having a U.S. pavilion would hurt US-China relations. Basically, China is an insecure but powerful kid who would have cried and made a fuss if the U.S. refused to play along. Even then, the U.S. gov didn't contribute significant funding, and had to get everything from corporate backers.

This definitely wasn't a case where the U.S. was impressed with China's awesome cultural, soft power, and said, "hey there, I've got to be a part of that!"
 said on
May 9, 2010
Forgot to add: loving the podcasts, keep them up!
 said on
May 9, 2010
Love the podcast. It's a welcome addition to my iPod.

Kaiser read from a blog post he wrote. It would be really cool if the podcast had links to stories our sources mentioned in the show.

 said on
May 9, 2010
Thanks for all the comments, folks. I'm traveling right now but I'll definitely find some time to put up links to stories we mentioned. @Darth, I think we definitely did define soft power at the very, very beginning of the podcast -- "the power of attraction, as opposed to coercion or payments," which is how Joseph Nye (who coined the term) defined it. Economic power apart from direct payments is, then, a part of soft power; it's not strictly cultural by any means. There are diplomatic, cultural, economic, even political forms of soft power to some extent (e.g., the appeal of a particular form of government). Some regimes drawn, for whatever reason, to China's brand of developmental authoritarianism might then be described as being in the thrall of Chinese soft power. You've heard discussion of the so-called "Beijing consensus" that Joshua Cooper Ramo described? Some would argue that the Chinese style of market economics and technocratic authoritarian politics represents a source of attraction and thus a component of Chinese soft power.

Stevendaniel88, actually that piece I read from was for a radio broadcast on BBC, which went out live and I don't believe there's a link to that broadcast I'm afraid.

Best,

Kaiser
 said on
May 9, 2010
@Kaiser: another great podcast. One point that echoes what Travelyan brought up regarding the Confucius Institute in the San Gabriel Valley in Southern California. While the majority of the overseas Chinese population in both Northern and Southern California is now from the Mainland, the San Gabriel Valley is the heart of the Taiwan expatriate community. What makes the SGV so interesting is that it is the only divided Chinese region in the world where approximately 50% of the Chinese population comes from Mainland China and the other 50% from Taiwan. While on the surface, everyone is largely amicable. Below that egg shell thick surface is a significant amount of animus between the two sides that manifests itself in disputes like the one over the Confucius Institute. Just to give you an idea over how contentious it is, one of the most controversial topics that you can raise in mixed Mainland/Taiwan company in Southern California is whether you use pin yin or phonetics to teach your kids Chinese. This gives you an idea of what kind of minefield the Confucius Institute is operating in.
 said on
May 9, 2010
Kaiser,

Interested to hear that you're campaigning for internet censorship down under. Just a quick one-night stopover, or does your campaign involve multiple cities? I'll put the kettle on if Brisbane is on the radar.
 said on
May 9, 2010
@Talktostuart I trust you're joking; I'm obviously no advocate of Internet censorship, and I'm only here to take part in a debate because I was asked to argue against the proposition that "no government should censor the Internet" (which is a pretty easy position to defeat, I would think). No Brisbane; just Sydney and Melbourne. Hate being portrayed as some stooge of the CCP, and I'm planning on making it abundantly clear that I'm opposed to censorship as practiced in China, and opposed instinctively to curbs on Internet freedom in countries (like Australia) with deep roots in the western liberal political culture.
 said on
May 11, 2010
Loving these podcasts guys. Think you were a bit hard done by that program last night Kaiser. Hopefully you get a better chance to get your point across in Sydney.

On the Confucius Institutes, you're right. I've been involved, on a small scale, with the one here in Melbourne, and there only ever really seems a dozen or so people involved at any time.

Off topic, I'm heading to Beijing in July. Hoping to check out Beijing's live rock scene. I've heard Mao's Live house and D-22 are pretty good clubs. Any recommendations?
 said on
May 11, 2010
@Crusty_138 Thanks, yeah, those types of shows make it difficult to get into any real depth, but I feel like I got at least some of my main points across reasonably well. Mao Live House is closed -- the place was a real fire trap -- and D-22 is good if you're really into style and substance repulses you. Great hair cuts and ironic t-shirts, but don't expect much by way of musicianship or musicality. Other clubs to check out are 13 Club (right next to D-22) and Yugong Yishan. Enjoy the rock scene in Beijing! It's really pretty damned vibrant.
 said on
May 11, 2010
@crusty_138

Lots of smaller more intimate venues around town offer good sets too, esp. around the Drum Tower 鼓楼 area.

Check out http://cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/ and http://www.thebeijinger.com/

to see what's good while you're in town.

 said on
May 13, 2010
I actually do ride a bike in America but ironically I felt safer when I rode a bike in Beijing. The drivers here think that bikes shouldn't be using the road and truth is I wonder how often I have been close to death or major injury because of the way people here drive in relation to bikers. It isn't like Beijing where they have bike lanes with a median to protect the bikers. In addition, electric bikes here cost about $3-4,000 and people can buy a car for that much so why buy one. I bet as gas prices go up and the technology for electric bikes also increases decreasing prices so will the willingness to buy and use an electric bike in America.
 said on
May 20, 2010
The US had the VOA as a major leg of its cold war, so it is hard to say the US has not used "soft power" too. I think China is trying to change the stereotype of China as poor and unimportant. I thought the Cinese presentations were impressive. The Olympics and Expo are solid examples of this.

The poor excuse for a pavilion the US put up was a huge PR mistake by the US. Millions of Chinese will not see a solid message but instead will see a "America is lost and weak" message.

Content is the key. It has to be open to wide discussions and interesting. If it is just the party line, it will limit receptiveness.

 said on
June 1, 2010
I would be surprised if I'm not persona non grata here after how ridiculous I've been to 1,2,3 of the podcast discussants, but if Howard French shows up, I've read his scathingly negative report on China's involvement in Africa. Since it's essentially a first-hand report, I can't rebut its core thesis but I can mention that he was relatively off about China's potential to stimulate agricultural productivity growth.

See this program:

http://www.focac.org/eng/dsjbzjhy/hxxd/t645965.htm
 said on
June 1, 2010
I would be surprised if I'm not persona non grata here after how ridiculous I've been to 1,2,3 of the podcast discussants, but if Howard French shows up, I've read his scathingly negative report on China's involvement in Africa. Since it's essentially a first-hand report, I can't rebut its core thesis but I can mention that he was relatively off about China's potential to stimulate agricultural productivity growth.

See this program:

http://www.focac.org/eng/dsjbzjhy/hxxd/t645965.htm
Mark Lesson Studied