@尼古拉斯桑,

哈哈哈，谢谢！其实大山不是美国佬儿，是加拿大人儿 :)

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

@尼古拉斯桑,

哈哈哈，你说中文还是英文？

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

尼古拉斯桑,

"Douche Chills"???!!! How dare you...

I often wear traditional Chinese clothing and it's not for cosplay purposes.

小样！哼！

Cynical? Nah! OK, perhaps just a wee wittow bit...

@尼古拉斯桑,

你的中文表达没问题，很好！

Btw, what's wrong with Dashan's hair?

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

@Xiao Hu,

And 大山 ALWAYS smiles :)

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

算了吧，我也喜欢大山了。我其实快要去本地的公园 cosplay 大山了。多cosplay 大山怎么不能帮我学中文？

@Xiao Hu,

I admire Mark and most people I know with decent Chinese feel the same. At least in Beijing, I think most foreigners also understand that Dashan is a public persona of sorts, and Mark is not this cheerful all the time.

With that said, I suspect the real reason he gets blowback is less about what he does linguistically (giving his audience what they want), and more about the way his behavior is often held up by Chinese people as a social role model for foreigners: innocuous, cheerful and apolitical. Nothing chafes like being screwed over by a particular Chinese official, only to have them invoke the image of Dashan to smooth things over after pocketing a few thousand kuai. Chinese students probably feel the same way every time someone mentions Lai Ning (http://chineseposters.net/themes/laining.php).

I don't see what Mark can do to control this since it isn't exactly his problem, but the fact that state media has funded much of his stuff has doubtless exacerbated the issue.

尼古拉斯桑,

I think almost everyone who has been in China for any reasonable length of time has had frustrating encounters with the state at some point. I've had bad experiences sure, but I don't think worse than anyone else and my comment wasn't intended to be personal.

The crux of my point was more that when I've heard people IN CHINA saying negative things about Dashan, it's always struck me they're transferring their frustration with other parts of China onto the guy.

Cheers,

--david

@Echo,

我就喜欢大山的和气的笑容！他不停地微笑属于他人自然的魅力。

@Daniu,

Perhaps then you've missed some of 大山's more insightful interviews where he, as a matter of fact, did express his ideas about a wide range of topics using, nearly flawles Beijing Chinese.

大山 isn't admired merely for his ability to learn a difficult foreign language as an adult, there are a wide variety of factors that influenced his success. Timing was among them, sure...making a bold move to the far-east, at a time when learning Chinese was far from en-vouge and Japanese was the international business language of choice. At that time, when China was viewed as a dirt poor third world country, a foreigner learning Chinese was simply unfathomable to most. And it payed handsome dividents for 大山.

Beyond that, what made him famous and his fame enduring, was what I'd mentioned above, his personality, dedication, humility, grace, charm, wit and most of all, foresight. 大山 saw a land of opportunity when all others saw merely a backwards nation filled with peasants and radical militants. 大山 expressed the traits that are admirable to the average Chinese, and changed their ideas of the arrogant foreigner who thinks himself far superior to his eastern brothers. The image of a self-serving, grandstanding foreigner blindly extolling the virtues of capitalism and condemning the evils of communism was blown apart by Mark Rowswell and and in its wake was a charming, well adjusted 大山, a diplomat who exuded wisdom and peaceful co-existence.

Chinese speaking foreigners like 爱华 (Charlotte MacInnis), 朱力恩 (Julien Gaudfroy), 渊源 (John Gordon) among countless others have come and gone, none have registered but a fleeting blip on the radar, because, as much as I deeply admire each of them, as I said earlier, none have the qualities that 大山 has.

You should look into some of the videos of 大山 doing other things besides talking about how wonderful China is. Don't judge him simply based on the Travel In Chinese series.

小虎

@Echo

大山的头发没有什么问题...I'm jealous.

@尼古拉斯桑,

I wholeheartedly agree with you! I got/get so frustruated by the foreign language learning system in the US, and the superior attutude of most people in the US with regards to foreigners. Learning a foreign language is, by and large, regarded as a colossal waste of time since, you know, "everybody speaks English". So, Americans are flat-out robbed of learning about another culture, contacting something outside their little sphere, becomming more wordly, cultured and sophisticated.

The US REALLY could really use a shot in the arm of culture and sophistication.

I always got definite encouragement in my foreign language pursuits, but not from schools or teachers, only from people who heard me speak Chinese and were impressed by it. They were always encouraging, but when I'd try to get them interested in learning another language (not necessarily Chinese) then I would invariably get the whole, "it's too hard, and everyone speaks English anyway, but it's really cool that YOU like it". To me, learning another language should be a prerequisite in High-Schools, because it touches, stimulates and trains so many areas of your brain. Plus the vast weatlh of cultural information that is carried along with the words, it's an awesome, awesome thing!

It's funny because I had an experience with a Cantonese man in the US who spoke very good Mandarin, I would frequent his restaurant and he would speak a little Mandarin with me. One day I went into his shop to eat and he made it a point to come out from the kitchen and bawl me out for "wasting time" learning Mandarin, "Everyone in the world wants to learn ENGLISH" he bellowed, "what are you doing?! Your wasting your time!"

Needless to say he lost a paying customer that day.

How do you say pontificate in Chinese?

@jcnighs

Interesting point. I've run into that before. However, I have to admit that I experienced those same emotions when said people would answer in English to my Cantonese. I think it is more of a question of alienation. If I'm with someone who is Chinese and we are in an English setting I will speak English to them unless its necessary to speak Chinese. For the same reason I won't automatically speak Chinese with someone who isn't good at English but is making an attempt. I think its about allowing someone to be apart of the community. It can be conflicting when both sides are trying to learn the other's native language. Again the emphasis is still, and has been for quite some time, on Chinese learning English not the other way around. Now they suddenly have a flood of 老外 speaking (or attempting to) Chinese. It will take some adjustment. I'm actually curious to ask Echo about the condescension that you brought up-

@Echo

When foreigners just come up to you and start speaking Chinese does it ever feel like they are being condescending? Some Chinese Americans find it rather condescending because you are assuming they can't speak English. Drawing from personal experience my girlfriend's (She's Chinese)mother and father both have very little English and actually told me that they are embarrassed because they should know English better. They actually asked my girlfriend (their daughter of course) if I 看不起 them. I'm curious what you're perspective is. Notice I barely used any Chinese so you wouldn't get offended - he he :).

@尼古拉斯桑,

I agree with you that it's all about the setting. When Chinese people have come up to me and tried to strike up a dialogue in English, I've done my best to keep the conversation all in English, and used Chinese to explain words that they did't know, only if we ran into difficulties and they did't understand. Even if they lapsed into Chinese, I still tried to steer the conversation back into English unless it was clear that the entire well of their English knowledge had run dry.

There is a guy on another language site who said, when he came to China he was going to let NOTHING stand in his way of learning Chinese, so he absolutely would speak NO English with Chinese people, he forced them to speak Chinese with him whether they liked it or not. It worked out very well, his Chinese is off the charts!

He recommended that all foreigners who are really interested in learning Chinese do the same, otherwise you'll never get a chance to speak Chinese, you'll spend all your time teaching Chinese people English.

@Echo,

“自以为是”，“坐而论道”，“啰嗦”，“唠叨”不是都有pontificate的意思吗？你觉得MoNigeria想表达哪一个的意思？

哦，我差点忘了！“小虎谈论大山和学习外语”这个固定的用于也是啊！

;)

@Echo

Sorry, just being facetious.

@尼古拉斯桑,

I'm in complete agreement that anyone learning another language should pledge to use it whenever possible. Obviously when we're going through life we can't always surround ourselves with the foreign language (I'm in China and I spend 90% of my days speaking English unfortunately). However if we want to learn a language well, then we HAVE to become immersed in it. We also need good input. I think 80/20 is a good rule of thumb. Spend 20% of our time learning new language points and 80% of our time practicing them through conversation.

I think when you get to China, try to be flexible and yet be as inflexible as you possibly can, even if someones English is better than your Chinese, DON'T let that deter you from speaking Chinese with them. Force them to speak their native language with you, after all, it's YOU who need to learn a language, not them.

@Huyilin,

小胡. It's interesting that you say that, I supect you may not believe me but, I'm usually a stickler for "cleanliness" in language. When Chinese people throw around English verbs or nouns into their speech it makes me slightly batty, to say the least.

Here, in an educational environment, I try to do it in a strategic way, to try and give an English context to Chinese so that it's easier for learners to pick up what I'm saying through having some sort of English anchor.

I use nothing but Chinese to communicate with Echo, and my wish is to be able to use nothing but Chinese to communicate in this forum, however many of the students here are at intermediate level in spoken Chinese and maybe beginner level in written so it's not always possible. I've learned a ton of language points from Echo, but she's busy with creating and recording material for three language podcast sites, Popup Chinese, Apprendar Chino and Chinese Class 101, I know her schedule is full, so whatever she can contribute I always treat like gold. Still, much of what I've learned has been through my own efforts and self correction.

I'm confident that you will find the total immersion experience quite helpful and satisfying. When I came to China the first time, I stayed for 6 weeks and that time was equal to a year of learning and practicing in the states. I didn't speak English at all for the entire time I was here, and I found that after the first week the level of fluency increased dramatically and the amount of words that I needed to look up the the dictionary dropped dramatically.

谢谢你这样赞美我。你能够从我这里学到很多知识，我很高兴！其实我没啥所谓的语言天赋，反而我只是很努力的学习而已，更何况我喜欢语言. 学习语言是我的酷爱之一。

以上我不是说我的很多中文是自学的吗？我经常下很多功夫记住很多我自己认为是又有用又有意思的成语，后来发现那些成语却彻底没用！比如说，“蜀犬吠日”这个成语是“大惊小怪”much ado about nothing 的意思。结果有一次我上课的时候用“蜀犬吠日”去帮助学生理解“much ado about nothing”这个英文俗语。我回头一看我所有的学生都愣住了，不知道该说什么才好。

我问，“Do you understand?”

答，“Not really.”

然后我给他们解释一下，“蜀犬吠日”这个中文成语的意思然后他们齐声喊，“大惊小怪”！

这就是我，总是下很多功夫学会没用的玩意儿而忽略有用的。:(

Everyone here might be interested to read this post by Mark about the Dashan character. Sort of remarkable:

http://www.quora.com/Chinas-Future/Thanks-for-the-question-which-I%E2%80%99ve-followed-for-some-time-but-thought-best-to-let-others-speak-first-In-fact-this

XIAOHU'S ADVENTURES THROUGH THE BIG MOUNTAIN

Several weeks ago, after Travelyan posted the above link to an article posted by Mark Rowswell about the Dashan character and published on Quora. Using my Android phone, I clicked on the "more" link to view the entire article and hastily devoured it like a tiger that's just gotten his first fresh kill in weeks. I read it three times over and found it both extremely fascinating and also a bit suspicious. Being that I was logged into Quora's mobile site, I could read the text of the article, see links to other, related articles also published on Quora and also see a note that said, "via Matthew Moore". Being unfamiliar with Quora, in my mind, this "via" looked like a reposting from another souce, but what was the other source? I tried clicking on everything I could click on, including the link that took me to Matthew Moore's profile on Quora, but no link to the other source. Dashan also mentioned not eating children, "not human ones at least". Which seemed a bit strange and out of character for Dashan.

I then went to the Dashan website and attempted to locate the article and verify that it had actually been penned by the very hand of Da Shan, and that it hadn't been edited or amended when it was reposted on another site.

Seeing as I couldn't get verification, I decided to take it upon myself to contact Dashan.

Actually, I had been to his website countless times, and for years written letters to him that, in my fear and awe of the great one, had turned tail and cancelled at the very last second for various reasons ranging from, I had no topic to talk about, to, I felt like I'd be bothering him, to, I'd probably just get a courtesy response back from his 助理, to, my Chinese was simply not up-to-par. At any rate, I finally had a legitimate reason to contact my Idol, so, I'd better make it good.

As I wrote my letter, I couldn't help but gush. I began my letter with ten thousand words of praise. Gushing how he is a truly great example and how for so many years he's been a positive role model, a diplomat and a conduit of good faith between the east and west. I pasted the link and asked him if he'd acually posted it himself.

To my great surprise, a few days later I received a very diplomatic and amiable letter back in English from Da Shan himself verifying that he himself had written the Quora post and to reference the bottom of the quora page to peruse links to other articles he'd written!

I was awe-struck! I couldn't believe that I actually had correspondence it my own G-mail box from Dashan! I could see the year of the Dragon starting off as it's long been purported, as one of magesty!

I couldn't figure out what he was talking about with the "other links" thing, there were just other articles written by other people about "China's Future", nothing else from Da Shan...but, no matter, it was nonetheless glorious!

Being that he'd responded back in English, I wrote back an English response thanking him for taking the time to write and, yet again couldn't help but gush.

He'd mentioned in his letter that his Chinese fans aren't aware of any Da Shan backlash, so I addressed the issue, gushing about how there shouldn't be any Da Shan backlash and even the other talented westerners that speak Chinese like 朱力安 or 爱华 or 大牛 should be proud to be compared to Da Shan.

I also couldn't help but fantasize, this could be the beginning of a beautiful 友谊-ship...小虎, and 山哥...好哥们儿！

I also mentioned that, since the post was "via Matthew Moore", with no link referencing the actual source article, that it looked a bit suspicious. Besides it mentioned Kaiser Kuo, and, who besides Popup Chinese members or Sinica podcast listeners know THAT name?

Da Shan's response back was slightly colder the second time around. The bolded text beginning his letter that read, "via indicates the one who ASKED the question". Popped out at me, burning itself into my eye-sockets.

But wait a minute, how in bloody tarnation can anyone tell who asked the question?

"And Kaiser Kuo is well known in Beijing for his writing...before doing the podcasts etc."

Hmmm, I guess I should have done more research on the fullness of Kaiser Kuo before bringing him up to Da Shan.

I'm not a current affairs man, in fact my Chinese friends often criticize my lack on knowledge of current events, I rarely listen to Sinica, (sorry Kaiser) I only know that he is currently a bigwig at Baidu and has a pretty kickin' cool band, 罢了.

But hold on...wait a sec...what was Da Shan saying about links at the bottom of the article? Did I somehow miss something here?

I went back to Quora through the link that Trevelyan posted and started clicking around again. This time I discovered a link at the bottom of the page that read "full site", I clicked on it and then, this time, instead of clicking on "more" I clicked on the highlighted blue text and...

Well bonk my head and call me Larry...there it was!

Dashan's handsome face compressed neatly into an icon next to his article. A gaggle of posts followed Da Shan's including one smartly and hilariously written post by none other than Kaiser Kuo himself.

So this is what he was talking about.

Well bop me with a frying pan and call me Moe!

I could even see the second part of the title that read, "he seems like a nice guy, does he secretly eat children or something?"

No wonder he brought up eating children.

Well poke my eyes and call me Curly!

There was the original question from Matthew Moore, there chiding 小虎 for his ignorance and half-cocked-ness.

I hastily opened my e-mail box to write a response explaining the reason for my previous naiveté.

I quickly formulated a letter, clicked send and went back to my inbox, only to discover my letter had been kicked back to me. The reason? The recipient's e-mail address was no longer valid.

.............but....how can...but just two days ago....I...how in the name of...he...cancelled....that....e-mail....address???

Now I realize I shouldn't take it at all personally. Da Shan is an extremely busy man. In fact his return email address was just numbers. My theory is that his website generates a unique address for each inquiry that he can deactivate at will. Besides that, I contacted him on the eve of spring festival a busy time for a busy diplomat. Da Shan has too many other things to do besides answering silly questions from silly fans like myself.

That being said, I couldn't help feeling like it stung a little.

Anyway, like I said, Da Shan has thousands of things to do. He's got over a million followers on Weibo and I'm just another among a geat sea of followers. Just the fact that he did take the time to respond back personally means a great deal.

And anyway...we'll always have G-mail!

@Tevelyan,

I think part of being Canadian is also having a pretty good attitude.

All the Canadians that I've met seem to be happy, smiley people.

Maybe Da Shan wasn't quite correct, perhaps the Canadian way is the way of the smile.

By the way, have you ever seen the video with Da Shan's mother? She seems to love smiling, quite a positive and optimistic woman.

@David, Echo:

How many hits did you get from Dashan linking to you on Weibo? Homeboy has some 2.3 million followers.

This is too awesome!!! I feel so bad for him though... except when people compare me to him every time I say "你好". His self-defense was right on the mark. Then again, with 2.3 million Chinese fans why should he care about what the couple dozen Westerners who actually know who he is think?

@Xiao Hu,

这个是有点儿早的微博了，在这里：http://www.weibo.com/1779875541/zeBX76lmz 。他说：“我刚发现《泡泡中文》前年将本砖编进了对外汉语教材。课文题目《A Bad Day for Dashan 大山很糟糕的一天》。“我”的部分台词：快给我拿酒来，傻帽儿！等着我拿竹板儿打你呢。女：哇，他的中文可真了不起。男：了不起的是他还活着，今天都五瓶二锅头下肚了。 ”

David Moser 经常和大山一起在电视上做节目，他们好像也是很好的朋友。

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

@Xiao Hu,

哈哈哈，这个我还真不知道。

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

@Xiao Hu,

我在网上搜不到这个小品，你能给个链接吗？

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

@Echo,

对了,大山说得一点都没错. 和他扮演这个小品的搭档的普通话非常了不起! 讲的真是一口流利的普通话, 一句话...了不得!