posted by amir on April 11, 2012 | 23 comments
Are there any Chinese/Taiwanese TV shows that are remotely interesting to Western viewers? Crime dramas? Mysteries? Comedy? The shows I've streamed so far on PPTV have been excruciatingly boring (maybe too accustomed to American fare full of sex & violence).
I don't know of any good Chinese ones, but Korean soap operas dubbed into putonghua are pretty good.
@amir,Hahaha, I agree with Maggie. I would also recommend 摩登家庭 (not the American one). It's an old TV show made by CCTV, but surprisingly good. --Echoecho@popupchinese.com
murrayjames on April 12, 2012 | reply
A dissenting opinion:
Maggie and Echo offer good suggestions for women, but our poster appears to be male. Amir, here's my take on Chinese TV.
TV is bad everywhere. Chinese TV is slightly worse. If you like TV in general, you'll be able to find a Chinese television show that suits you. If you don't like TV, you'll have a hard time, unless you find a sympathetic Chinese person to watch with--a wife, for instance. If you actually live in China, learning to enjoy TV with Chinese characteristics is somewhat easier.
From your post I assume you're looking for a dramatic series. It's worth noting, however, that there are other kinds of TV shows, all of which can help with your Chinese. Shows like: Kids cartoons; News; Documentaries; Reality TV.
Cartoons: Yep, children's cartoons. When I first came to China, I watched 喜羊羊与灰太狼 on youku.com. This was partly because I could follow the plotlines even with poor Chinese; I learned a lot of vocab this way. Mostly, though, it was because Chinese serials were unbelievably bad.
News: If you're wondering how good your Chinese still isn't, watch the news. A truly humbling experience.
Documentaries: If you like documentaries, this is the obvious choice. Nature documentaries, history documentaries... Narrators speak clear, standard Chinese at a medium pace. Always subtitled and rife with new vocabulary.
Chinese Reality TV: Quality-wise, the same as American reality TV. 中国达人秀 (a copy of "Britain's Got Talent") and 非诚勿扰 (a elimination-style dating show) are the two big ones. If you actually live in China, scan the dials... lower quality shows (true crime, family scandals, etc.) are out there, too.
But your post appears to refer to dramas. I have two pieces of advice. The first is for you to stay far, far away, because (as you've already discovered) Chinese serial dramas are awful. What does it mean that the first two posters, Maggie and Echo, recommended dubbed Chinese programming from Korea?
I've watched several episodes of Chinese dramas. They were bearable only because of my wonderfully patient wife who puts up with my cynical asides. The first 《还珠格格》 is set in ancient China and features a band of people returning some woman plus a love triangle and a laowai musician and a woman who constantly cries about being blind. The second series《后宫甄嬛传》is set in ancient China and features 孙俪 plus a swarm of concubines vying for the love of the Emperor. A lot of them die.
These shows would never be bearable alone. If you have a sympathetic friend to watch with ("Wait, she's dead? How did she die? She only lightly bounced her head off that brick wall.") then it can be quite fun.
Most Chinese dramas fall into the following categories:
(1) Anti-Japanese war dramas set in China in WWII; (2) young Chinese couples trying to get rich; (3) modern soaps; and (4) fantasy dramas set in ancient China. Of these four types of shows, I've only had the stomach for (4). Watch (3) if you dare; you're in for endless medium close-up shots and a case of blue balls lasting 50 episodes or more.
The best piece of advice I could give you is this:
Search Chinese-forums' "Grand First Episode Project" for a drama that's suitable for you. The project works like this: Twice a week, Chinese learners watch the first episode of a TV show. They comment about it online. If they like the show they keep watching; if not, they wait a few days and watch the next one. It's a great place for recommendations, at least.
Introduction to the project:
http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/16784-the-grand-first-episode-project/
Recommendations and shows covered so far:
http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/24097-tv-series-recommendations-and-index-thread/
In any case, good luck! Let us know what you decide----you may even find something for us worth watching.
I'll say 喜洋洋和灰太郎，AA制生活。后宫甄嬛传 has a lot of ancient words, I think it's right for people who want to learn some classical Chinese. Oh, and 北京爱情故事。
--Amber
I'm a big fan of the early-90s series 编辑部的故事, which was written at least partly by the novelist 王朔. It features 葛优 (with hair!) in a leading role, and is generally so Beijing it hurts. Lots of dry humor, while also managing to be good-hearted without being sappy.
drummerboy on April 18, 2012 | reply
I totally forgot about that one. I remember watching it with my host family in Beijing in the 90s. Couldn't understand much of it then. I should get it on DVD as it is a classic.
我也忘得差不多了，但有一集我一直记着，就是有一个谣传说世界末日到了，编辑部里的一个平时特别节省的人一下买了好多盒饭吃，结果世界末日没来，他老人家先撑的去医院了......--Echoecho@popupchinese.com
@Amir,(SIGH)I've seen and been a part of this debate on countless Chinese forums and in short the answer is NO. A big no! A resounding NO! Not at all. Stop looking. Save yourself the hastle. Using entertainment as a language learning tool is a fantastic aid...for OTHER languages, languages OTHER THAN Chinese. You don't need to beat your head against the wall anymore. Stop this insane search, it will ultimately lead to dead ends. Don't waste your time! Apparently Chinese TV, Cinema and Entertainment are not, and never will be interesting to foreigners...and Echo as well.This is not to say that there isn't a plethora of great Chinese movies and TV shows...but it's not and never will be appealing or able to be comprehended or appreciated by the 老外 community...or you for that matter. It's nothing that you will ever like so...in short...STOP THE MADNESS!
Short Stories on April 18, 2012 | reply
@Xiao Hu,哈哈哈哈，我同意有一些电影电视剧，比如，大话西游，如果不了解故事的文化背景，可能比较难懂。但有一些还是可以当偶像剧看的，还有一些翻拍的电影，比如香港的无间道，如果找到普通话配音的也不错。还有张艺谋的一些早期作品。--Echoecho@popupchinese.com
@Echo,
我来中国之后发现连住在中国很久的外国人也无法理解中国文化，大多数的中国电视剧有充满中国特色在里面所以老外看不懂是一所当然的。
就像我给中国学生讲西方笑话一样。我的笑话是，我曾经看过一个广告，广告里面有一个男人的手拿着一块幸运签饼，里面的 所谓的 fortune 说，“你吃的不是鸡肉”，讲完了后课堂里的学生都愣神儿了。
其实我很好奇，你可以理解这个笑话的笑点吗？你觉得好笑吗？
说外国人不懂中国电视剧的现象，我们西方人为什么会对关于皇上和姬妾的关系感兴趣呢？所以我们西方人不会喜欢。我之前的想法就是这样，不过因为我相信“爱屋及乌”这句话的道理所以我会看，慢慢慢慢我开始喜欢，慢慢慢慢开始理解，通过很长时间的积累我们西方人可以理解而欣赏，只不过大部分的西方人对中国的兴趣是因为想来中国发财的原因，所以从来不会喜欢。但如果西方人用心的努力理解的话，我估计他会慢慢的开始喜欢中国娱乐，特别是有中国历史文化的节目。反正我自己觉得很有意思。
harry.yang on April 18, 2012 | reply
I see the wonderful gift that you are to all of us – how generous of you to so freely share yourself.
drummerboy on April 20, 2012 | reply
So it's looks like I will be in the minority here, but I do enjoy SOME Chinese TV shows and do find a lot of value from a language and culture prespective. Having said that, you can't just watch passively and expect to gain much. I usually have Pleco open to type things in that I don't catch, save it as a flascard and review it later. It would probably be frustrating to sit through these at a less than upper intermediate level. (IMO) I also think that these types of shows provide a nice supplement to your studies as you will hear native level conversation and pick up things that text books won't cover. Also having someone to discuss the content with is a huge benefit as there will be cultural points that are hard for westerners to understand.
Here is a brief list of shows that I personally have enjoyed and leaned a lot from:
中国式离婚 （蒋雯丽，王志文）
天道 （王志文）
手机 （陈道明， 王志文）
我的青春谁做主
冬至 （陈道明）
黑洞 （陈道明）
玉观音
金婚 （张国立， 蒋雯丽）
国家干部 （王志文）
Of course this is personal preference, but I believe most Chinese (depending on age) will tell you most of these include the best actors in china (陈道明， 王志文，蒋雯丽， 张国立）。 Some of these are a few years old.
Good luck!
@Drummerboy,I think you've shown that anything with 陈道明 in it is a winner.BTW: you and I are BOTH in the minority. What do you think about 甄嬛传?
drummerboy on April 23, 2012 | reply
@ Xiao Hu,
The reason I like 陈道明 is because he is extremely selective with the work he does. Therefore, most of it is quite good. Good acting, good directing, script etc. As you know a lot of Chinese movies and TV shows are hard to watch because they are often quite fake. For the most part, 陈道明's work is very high quality.
I have not yet seen 甄嬛传.
@Drummerboy,I guess I got a bit caught up in my film descriptions, I like 《甄嬛传》because it's very well written, the story and acting are very good and it gives us a small glimpse into 清朝 culture, which, I'm always for cultural preservation.You should give it a try, I think you'll like it.Just be aware that the voice is overdubbed which (as it does with all other Chinese shows) does give it a tinge of a fake sound. But stick with it, you'll definitely like it.
drummerboy on April 26, 2012 | reply
@ Xiaohu,Have you seen the new 《茶馆》? It's quite good and I recommend it :-) http://www.youku.com/show_page/id_zcbfdeb32962411de83b1.html
drummerboy on April 25, 2012 | reply
Urgh! Overdubbed! I hate that, it's so annoying. Nonetheless I will give it a try. Thanks for the recommendation.
@Drummerboy,
Yes 陈道明，has fantastic taste in projects, which is why he is always associated with the best in Chinese entertainment.
He he, right, definitely quite fake.
Like muscle-bound heroes who run, bare chested, through barrages of bullets again and again and somehow, no matter how many times they do battle, single-handedly, with armies of crack-shot soldiers always seem to emerge unscathed to ultimately save the day.
Leading men who never eat or drink for an entire day, run around looking for clues to uncover covert plots, go through harrowing situations while still deprived of sustenance, starving and dehydrated, confront the bad guys in shootouts countless times, but never get shot, wounded, or even tired, then survive bomb blasts that detonate within several feet of them, and survive, again completely unscathed and somehow also undeafened, get killed and come back to life to save the world from terrorists.
Mask wearing psycho-killers who are seriously injured three of four times during the course of a film, then shot several times and, even though mortally wounded always manage to come back shrieking for one final shot at the kill at the end of a film and then turn into undead bloodthirsty zombies through countless sequels.
Disconnected husbands and fathers on the verge of divorce who fall into magical whirlpools and become young again, then miraculously patch up their relationships with estranged wives and kids to become a happy family once again.
Brilliant and clearly mentally sound professors who inexplicably fall madly in love with rude, immature, disrespectful and narcissistic young girls, then proceed to shut them away from society, then go on the run to hide their pedophilic relationship, and when the girl runs away, abandon all upbringing, education and sanity and proceed to shoot the brilliant bohemian who they believe convinced the girl to leave them and later die in prison.
Groups of insanely sexy and fabulous looking super powerful supermen and women on treks through jungles who do battle with giant,supercharged snakes.
Angst-ridden cops who magically make contact with their dead fathers and save them from dying in a past time through mystical sunspot-anomaly-powered ham radios.
Mentally unstable and jealously fueled mad-women who are clearly drowned, dead and gone and yet still unimaginably rise again from the water, shrieking, to make one last attempt to violently take out the estranged object of their jealous rage-filled affections and as they burst forth from the water, take a deep, cleansing breath and yet aren't affected, even one time by any cough/gag reflex, although their lungs have obviously been filled to capacity with water.
Brilliant flesh-eating psychopaths who inexplicably manage to escape from maximum security asylums by wearing the skin of dead security guards, then later break into the house of their arch-nemesis, give them a lobotomy, then pull off their scull cap and feed them their own butter-sauteed brains while the captured remarks at how sumptuous their own fried grey matter tastes.
Your right...fake...SO fake.
Oh wait...that's AMERICAN movies....
BTW: Extra credit if you can identify the references.
@Xiao Hu,我看了几集甄嬛传，觉得剧本不错，一些演员也演得不错，可是还是整体感觉演得假，为什么中国的电视剧电影都演得这么假惺惺的呢？真是让人百思不得其解~--Echoecho@popupchinese.com
@Echo,我很喜欢看《甄嬛传》，我也觉得故事情节特别棒。你说到中国电影和电视剧演得假惺惺的问题，这是因为两个很明确的原因，第一，中国的演义学派和美国，欧洲，俄洲有很大的不同，中国没有方法演技，虽然现在的美国演员演戏不是特别好，不过我估计大部分美国明星都被方法演技影响所以演得比较逼真。第二，中国的大部分节目还是配音的，这也会影响到效果。其实《甄嬛传》所有的声音都是配音的。