I think Shaun Rein's defense was poorly articulated, and did nothing but further his 'apologist' branding.

I agree with Freescania and Richard. And let's not overlook the fact that the first two points Shaun makes in his "defense" are factually wrong and can be proven so by anyone with an Internet connection. It is absurd to argue that "real poverty has been basically eradicated" in China and it takes less than a minute to see that the United States still holds a considerable edge over China in terms of life expectancy. This holds even if you compare expected MALE longevity in the States to FEMALE longevity in China.

Fail Shaun, FAIL. And it is a public service for blogs like Peking Duck to call this sort of shit out. Because that's what it is. It pollutes the opinions of people who tend to take magazines like Forbes as authoritative sources. And all it serves is letting the author feel good while trying to establish himself as holier-than-thou.

Gady makes the best point here - apologism is a form of self-flattery. I also disagree with pinhead_gunpowder on whether it's ok to be emotional about this stuff too. I'd much rather be in a discussion with someone who is passionate about their opinion, because it betrays their biases and shows they care about the subject matter more than they care about how THEY are perceived by others. Someone with an ego or political agenda is a lot more dangerous.

And I think ostracization and ridicule is a perfectly appropriate defensive strategy when dealing with to this sort of thing. I'm surprised Shaun is still writing for Forbes.

Agree. China looks more liberalized than before, but actually it is not. Even worse.

我个人觉得郭德纲有点傲，在媒体面前总会有出言不逊，容易得罪人。也许我们不能原谅他某些话语的轻狂，但毕竟他符合中国某些愤世嫉俗的人的心理需要。在中国，不公平的事件很多，公民没有安全感的地方也不少，如担心养老，教育，住房。我想每个国家都会出现类似的情况。

Im tired of this kind of stuff being on this site, create another website for this kinda stuff

Some of its interesting but for people who know about this stuff, they already have their own opinions, for those who dont (learner level English teachers who havent been here long) you just fuel their easily impressionable and uninformed minds

Stick to teaching Chinese as thats what we want to hear!!!

听着真爽，太有共鸣了！！

还有，我个人完全支持郭德纲老师。

Anyone who gets perturbed by Jeremy's reaction or manner of making a point aren't being objective themselves. If you truly listen to what someone is saying, take it on board and evaluate it, then it doesn't matter how they say it.

The problem is with the receiver not sender.

As for Shaun's defence, it was a bit ridiculous. Granted, reform needs to be pushed through a domestic-minded agenda in China, but that doesn't mean that the West or people have to give up on their principles at every turn. How is that helping China in the long run?

There is a balance to be struck between the Mandela/Gandhi stubbornists who never want to compromise on principles, which is where much of hte 'apologists' accusations come from; and on the other side, the ultra-pragmatists who think that doing things the chinese, or party way is always best.

The balance to be struck is called compromise. What google did was compromised initially on its values upon entering into the mkt, after a few years when little was coming in compromise from the other side, they held firm on their principles (or tried to).

An interesting take on both topics- keep it coming! Slow news are so much better than what mainstream media serve us :-)

at least arguments here are more rational on both sides..

Guo's activity was a REaction--the media wanna obscure the 'passive behavior' by the 'active' .

Jeremy is awesome! Often has a great, poignant view of things.