In recent news, Beijing University has disbanded its Chinese philosophy department. "We listened to the latest advanced show from Popup Chinese," department chairman Wang Xiaoming stated, "and realized that they nailed it... wrapping up essentially all outstanding academic disputes in a mere fifteen minutes." With no research remaining to be done and no need for further books on the matter, the professoriat is disbanding to focus on university administration.

Learning Chinese? There are a couple of philosophical debates in mandarin that form such a core part of the language that it's impossible to be a well-rounded Chinese speaker without being aware of them. The question of "original sin" is exactly one such issue: is evil inherent to the nature of man, or a product of social upbringing? We were curious how everyone at Popup Towers came down on this, which is why we invited Sylvia, Echo and David into our studio for a debate over 性本善 or 性本恶. Why not take a listen and let us know what you think?
 said on
December 5, 2013
我很喜欢这个播客,这是第一次David在一个高级播客里吧?可是里面有一个小小的时间错误。三字经是在宋朝左右的著作,在明代才开始广泛流传,而孔子、孟子、荀子都是两千年以前的人,所以,孟子是不可能借鉴三字经的。

另外,在三字经中,有这样的句子:昔孟母,择邻处,子不学,断机杼。这是孟母三迁的故事。

三字经中还有这样的句子:融四岁,能让梨。弟于长,宜先知。这是说孔子的二十世孙孔融让梨的故事。

所以我们可以知道一件事情,虽然三字经是中国的经典著作,但是现在真正读它的人已经不多了。。大家知道的大概只有它开始的四个句子:人之初,性本善,性相近,习相远。别的大家都已经不太了解了。

当然,这里只是说到了人性本善还是人性本恶的问题,所以和三字经其他的内容没有什么关系。但是以后我们还是应该真正地读完三字经,然后再评价它。就好像我们要全面了解一件事情或一个人,才能评价这件事情或者这个人的好坏。

Gail@popupchinese.com

 said on
December 10, 2013
读历史表明景况是最重要的。性本善/性本恶没重要性。有足够吃饭的人很少偷食。困难时期让人做非常可怕的行为。

Also, surely the amount of effort we expend debating the nature of good and evil suggests we're basically good. A truly evil species wouldn't bother struggling with morality when it could be out burning ants!
 said on
December 11, 2013
我是一个美国人,现在住在广州教英语。我对Echo(我觉得是Echo,如果其实是喵喵说的,很不好意思)说的那句话真有兴趣:养坏的孩子很容易,养好的孩子比较难。

我的学生们都3-4岁,现在他们已经有自己的性格。除了几个孩子以外,都非常自私。我不是说他们是小坏人,就是说大部分还没学好怎么想别人的情况。我们老师们每一天教小朋友们怎么考虑他人的情况。

差不多每一个孩子很自私,可是我看到每一个人也有自然的好道德品质。我开始教小朋友们的时候,我发现了那些喜欢我的孩子们想帮助我。那时候他们的英语还很差,所以他们听不懂我的要求。然而,几个孩子看到我想上课他们就拿给我一个白板笔,下课以后帮我擦试,这样帮助。据我来说,这样行为有两个本源:一个是父母爷爷奶奶教的,一个是没一个人的天然爱心。

我的意思就是这样:不能说每一个人出生时是坏的或好的。都有好坏品质,就是阴阳。一个刚出生的宝贝会吃奶咬妈妈,也会跟爸爸妈妈抱抱玩玩。
 said on
December 12, 2013
我非常喜欢听你们的讨论。 我只要说,虽然David的意见很有意思,我听高级能力的中文的时候,一点也不想要听英文。说实话,我讨厌。 有没有别人有一样的想法吗? David说中文说的那么差吗? 我想他应该试试看把!
 said on
December 13, 2013
我同意楼上的看法:听高级播客的时候我只想听中文。我相信David的汉语一定说得很标准,就算偶尔说出几个小错误的话,我们也不会被混淆。我们大部分学了几年汉语了,毕竟也习惯了跟同学或者跟外国朋友和中国朋友在一起用汉语谈话,再来一个外国朋友说汉语是没有问题的吧!其实,我觉得我们听到你说汉语可以刺激我们自己更加认真地学汉语!

我同意,在美国的初中学生真的很可怕。至少我的经验是这样。

至于天性善恶的问题,我觉得很复杂。我以前都主张,人性本恶。现在我有一岁半的小女儿,我开始读一些关于幼儿期发展的文章,才意识到这个问题有多复杂。研究者认为,小孩儿一直到两岁左右(当然有很多个体变异)才获得一种“心理理论" (theory of mind),就是说他们到一定的年龄才意识到自己跟别人有不同的感觉,不同的看法,不同的思想。在这个年龄之前,幼儿以为自己的期望和感情就是周围所有的人的期望和感情。在这个情况下,我们可以说孩子是“自私”的,但是,如果孩子真的还没意识到除了自己以外还有别人的话,这个还算自私吗?至少跟我们常常说的大人的“自私”有巨大的区别。我看到自己的女儿的时候,虽然她有时候听话,有时候不听话,我还是觉得“善”和“恶”这两个字不是最合适的说法。

因为我信基督教,所以我时时来考虑,我作为妈妈的经验和我从信仰学的价值,应该怎么和谐,怎么调和?我还没完全想好,但是我现在觉得,人的天性本来好而有本质上的缺点。婴儿刚出生的时候不可以算恶也不可以算善,但是因为这个缺点,在孩子长大的过程中,他在每一个阶段都会有好的个性品质,但是总不能消除不好的个性品质。
 said on
December 15, 2013
我很欣赏你们三个人的声音,也很欣赏你们友好而认真的态度。你们这次选的哲学方面的题目也特别有意思。不过,我跟"楼上"几位同学的想法是一致的,在高级播客班很不想听有人讲英文!不管是David用英文介绍这次的节目,还是别的老师,也不希望听到中文和英文混在一起!比如:'“他们那么mean, 他们太cruel”!
 said on
January 16, 2014
@Paul makes a good point.

On the subject of American children and or individuals as a whole being cruel. It seems today that the American culture is on the extreme left regarding any sort of persecution or ridicule. There are legitimate discussions in Washington to literally outlaw speaking negatively about another person in public, and another movement to make it a crime to 'look lustfully' at a woman in public.

My Western influence forces me to side with David by the way. However, my wife is Chinese, and this may be her living for 4 years Stateside talking, she also believes people are inherently good natured.

I appreciate what all of you are doing. Keep up the great work!

-Sam
 said on
February 19, 2014
I think original sin and original goodness is both wrong, because nothing is black and white. Good and evil are subjective and based on opinions. The majority belief of good as promoting the happiness of others while not hurting others should be accepted as truth, but it is still based on opinion.

The idea that people are born flawed because of cruel tendencies with or without ignorance might just be humans acting like animals. Animals can be cruel to each other and animals can be kind. Animals also recognize when they have the power over something else that's living. Perhaps it's not original sin that's the problem, but the idea that humans are morally or fundamentally better than animals. Humans have done a lot of things, but it doesn't mean that it's better than animals just doing what they've always done either.
 said on
February 19, 2014
In America bullying is bad, but I think it's not just because of America. In America you can be bullied for a lot of things, but it's the same in other countries. I think the difference depends on the country's culture - different societies will treat bullying and bully in different ways.
 said on
March 6, 2014
我剛好開始上一門禪那佛教哲學的課。超難啊!無論是哲學的字還是佛教的字我都聽不懂!完蛋了!還好我教授很善良。會花時間幫我了解那些比較複雜的題目。

說實在,我中文還是不夠好探討哲學的。要多學習中文!謝謝你們哲學的podcast!
 said on
September 6, 2016
我个人认为善恶这个概念是人类自己想出来的,而不是一个真正存在的现象。因此我们不能说人的天性本善或本恶。小孩子的确很自私,可这个有一个很好的理由:自私的婴儿生存的可能性比不自私的婴儿要高得多,所以他们更好活到能够遗传自己的基因的年龄,才有了我们。可是长大了之后他不可能再保持那样自我保护又自私的态度,否则他早就会被其他人排斥,毕竟我们是社交动物。人类最独特的优点是我们靠对方来建立和发展社会,才需要和对方合作,才需要信任对方,才需要有个共同的标准和道德底线。总而言之,我们出生的时候不是善也不是恶,没有一个道德标准也没有懂得有道德这样的概念的能力,可是长大了慢慢地才懂得考虑别人的感受,而所谓的道德是从这个需要产生的。婴儿不懂好坏的好处在于可以把身边的资源集中在他身上,而长大了他为了活到繁殖年龄反而离不开走逆反的路。