barrister on October 9, 2010 | reply

I don't think a single resource will teach you all you need to know about any language, even if this one is pretty good. So by all means pick up a textbook. At the least, you can leaf through it when you're not online.

Taking your question seriously, I think Popup Chinese is best at the elementary and intermediate levels. I don't know if it would be good for learning totally from scratch but I'd guess the toughest thing about learning this way would be getting the confidence in things like pronunciation, etc. since there isn't a single podcast that systematically goes over that.

I remember David mentioning once that they expect it will take people 3 months or so to work their way from the Absolute Beginner content to the Elementary level. This is actually not bad if you consider some of the elementary dialogues. So I don't think two weeks is really much time at all, and certainly not enough to beat yourself up over. What might be helpful is if you could identify the areas where you're having difficulty. Maybe they can put together a couple of lessons to fill in the gaps.

ddavetaylor on October 12, 2010 | reply

I would recommend an SRS-style program such as Anki to input Chinese sentences and translations and then review this every day.

I have been learning Japanese for 3 years this way and found it an invaluable tool - since I started Chinese I've been doing the same. It's basically a way to ensure that you don't forget stuff.

Fire69 on October 13, 2010 | reply

@barrister:

Well, I looked around a little and got myself a book "Chinees voor kinderen" ("Chinese for children", my native language is Dutch) :-P

I choose this one because it's very basic to start with and I would really like it if my 2 children took up Chinese too. :-)

I can combine the podcasts here with the book.

@ddavetaylor:

I installed Anki too. Can you recommend some decks, the list to choose from is endless!!!

ddavetaylor on October 13, 2010 | reply

Personally I would recommend you build your own. What I would do is find a word in Chinese (any word, but preferably not some obscure one like paediatrician) and then enter that. Then find some online dictionary like yahoo.tw and just copy and paste some example sentences and translations. Start simple, don't try to push yourself or you will jsut end up getting frustrated. Take baby steps.

For Anki, I recommend also going to download plug-ins and download the pinyin one (if you sort plug-ins by download count then it's the second from the top, under the Japanese one). With this, when you enter a Chinese sentence it will automatically give you a translation or definition and also produce the pinyin complete with tones.

The way I tend to create my cards is by having the front of the card in Chinese and then pinyin and English translation on the back, as this also helps with reading comprehension and character recognition.

If you want, I can send you my basic deck (only about 550 cards at the moment).

I would also highly, highly recommend reading ajatt.com. This is by a guy who learned Japanese using an SRS program (and now also Cantonese). If you have a flick through some of the earlier articles and his methods, I think you'll find it really useful and motivating.

Xiao Hu on October 13, 2010 | reply

Fire69，

We all start with no prior knowledge of Chinese or Asian languages, we all have to start from scratch. The best thing is to try your best to take things one thing at a time.

Start with the basic sounds, mimic them as best you can.

Learn the basic parts of grammar as this will help you immensely throughout your journey.

Find ways to immerse yourself in the language, movies, music, podcasts, news can all immerse you in the flavor and rhythm of the language which is EXTREMELY important thoughout the learning process.

Remember that extensive learning is always the best way. I practice the 80/20 rule, meaning you will retain about 80% of what you learn but will at first only be able to actively utilize 20% of the things you learn, the rest will come to you over time.

PLANTING SEEDS is also extremely important. EVERYTHING is a building block, a step towards your goal. Every word you hear, every sound, every nuance is a step in the right direction.

Treat each small step as a great success, otherwise you'll get discouraged. If all you learn in one day is something simple like Ni3 Hao3, it's still a tremendous success.

DON'T GET DISCOURAGED by failure, concentrate on the success' as ENJOYING the process is the only way the ultimate goal will be reached.

HAVE FUN in the new language and you WILL succeed.

祝你好运！

小虎

Fire69 on October 13, 2010 | reply

@ddavetaylor:

Aren't there any decks available who only use pinyin and English on the back?

It's already hard enough to learn the pinyin right now, I would like to wait with the characters until I get the hang of the grammar and vocab a little. :-)

You can of course send me your deck! I would really appreciate that!

@Xiao Hu:

Wow, you are a great motivational speaker!!!

(or did you get all that from a book or something? :-P )

You are right, we all have to start from zero, and that's the biggest problem I guess. If you don't live in China, you don't get confronted with the language on a daily basis, so that makes it all a lot harder. I will have to actively go and search for some Chinese content. Music, movies, all very good tips!

Maybe Chinese children's movies are a good idea to start with? :-)

I have to admit, I was getting really discouraged when I wrote my first post here, but thanks to the great support here, I got over it. :-)

I sure am having fun, so even while it will take me a long time, I'm looking forward to succeed!

Xiao Hu on October 13, 2010 | reply

@Fire69,

Thanks for the compliment! No I didn't get it from a book, just my own personal expereiences. The one thing I've found to be an god-given truth is that setting to lofty goals for yourself and rampant perfectionism are absolute enemies to language learning. People always have these unreallistic expectations at the beginning and get frustrated when they don't achieve them, like becomming conversationally fluent in six months.

That's why I said to understand the 80/20 concept, that you won't have the ability to access a great deal of what you learn at first, but the important thing is to CONTACT as much information as you can. It WILL be stored away in your memory (like I said, planting seeds) and at some point in the future will spring to life.

People often get too bogged down in trying to focus in and learn every word and concept in a lesson before moving onto the next, which becomes the law of diminishing returns. It's like trying to grow a bountiful harvest without stopping to replenish the field, to nurture it, till and fertilize the soil.

To speed things up, what you need to do throughout the language learning process is to be VERY ORGANIZED in your study. To contact new information, store it away and reactivate it after some time has gone by. Put it into many different contexts as possible, which includes:

1- VISUALIZE: Without this step you will continually spin your wheels. Like the Rosetta Stone concept, we all learn language by associating a word or sound with something in life. With a person, place, thing, activity or concept. VISUALIZE the word in your mind, make it into a picture, a movie, complete with sights, sounds, smells and emotions. Once you do this you'll find memorization to be far easier.

2- SPACED REPETITION: Don't try to drill the word into your consciousness immediately, everything takes time. Repeat the memorization process of new information over several weeks. This is simply just TARGETED REVIEW. This way, you won't have to wait until some random cosmic occurence "activates" the new word or phrase in your mind, you can completely control how often you water and fertilize your garden, as it were.

3- MIMICRY: Mimicry will be your best friend to sounding authentic and having proper pronunciation. I hate to sound Yoda-esque, but you must UNLEARN all that you have learned. DON'T associate the Chinese words with any sound that you are familiar with. Completely erase those things from your mind and start fresh, you'll find it easier this way.

4- TONES ARE WORDS: Remember that in Chinese, a word isn't a word without a tone accompanying it. Tones are vital to the Chinese language.

5- IMMERSION: If you don't find some way to remain in contact with the language, then you are in for a long road indeed. Immersion in the language constantly reinforces things in your mind. Don't let immersion displace your active study, but instead let it enrich it.

6- GRAMMAR IS FASCINATING: So many people get frustrated with grammar, but once you realize that every language is built entirely on a few simple fundamentals, it will make your knowledge of grammar, and the language itself so much easier to handle. You don't have to study grammar through complex, almost scientific formulae, just understanding the basic order of language will move your language learning into light speed!

These are a few things that have helped me. It's by no means the end all be all, just a basic starting point. I welcome others to add to the list.

小虎

richard on October 15, 2010 | reply

@xiaohu, i find your comments 'hen youyong he jili'

i too, like fire69 i have a few months of learning and living outside of China without any confrontation of the language on a daily base (as he says) therefore, mising out on mimicry and tones. but will certainly apply some of your points.

@xiaohu, echo, i have started my own list of grammar points and sentence structures (with some examples) in OpenOffice for future print/reference > i've tried but not succesful with flashcards.

as suggested by ddavetaylor do you think Anki(have not downloaded yet) would be more efficient since i can get pinyin with tones and translation ? i don't want to get 'tai fuza' i'm happy with my daily dose of popupchinese premium features.

Xiao Hu on October 18, 2010 | reply

@Richard,

谢谢,过奖过奖. Actually, you can you tudou.com and youku.com to get your daily dose of Chinese immersion, there's news, entertainmen, MV (music videos) etc. You can immerse yourself in a wide variety of levels depending on the form of entertianment you watch. Cartoons are more simple, love stories set in modern times use very modern and up to date language, war movies use more classical language, you get the picture.

I always like to have my pocket dictionary and nciku.com at the ready in case I don't know something I can always pause and look it up and start playing again. You'd be amazed what you can learn from movies, which is why I love Film Friday, I just wish Popup Chinese would also feature Chinese entertainment, maybe a different feature that's dedicated to teaching through entertainment?

kyle833 on November 18, 2010 | reply

I think you need to know the pinyin first, and then try to remember the character, just recognise them, and practise more, maybe that will help you to learn faster.

im being a mandarin tutor for an English. I do it that way, and she made a big progress on mandarin. You are welcome to ask me sth. about these, i hope i can help. MSN:kyle833@live.cn