posted by Andrews_seat on September 20, 2010 | 5 comments
I would like to raise an issue which I believe is a problem with ALL Chinese teaching resources, including this and other websites, textbooks, and Uni courses.
The focus is always on translating a particular Chinese dialog (or sometimes a monologue) into English. It is rare that the converse is attempted. That is, translation of English into Chinese. For me, the result is that I understand a large amount of spoken Chinese, but struggle to say even the simplest things in Chinese. I suspect that this a common problem amongst learners of Chinese.
It would be nice if someone (perhaps PUC) could devote at least some of their resources to lessons involving English to Chinese translation. Lessons where the focus is on a particular English sentence pattern and its variations, and how these variations are translated into Chinese.
I realise that you have lessons which you call 'speaking practice', but they are just variations on your basic Chinese to English theme.
Any thoughts?
I think it's an excellent idea, Bob. If structured properly, there's no reason this couldn't be done and still have a dialogue too. We'll throw the idea at Brendan and Echo during our next recording session and see what they think.
Not to discount the original question, which has merit, but I'd like to add a couple of thoughts/questions of my own.
Since the goal is ideally to internalize Chinese without mentally going through English in the first place, isn't it (theoretically) counter-productive to put any kind of emphasis on English-to-Chinese translation with such goals in mind?
Actually, I think English-to-Chinese translation is an important skill to develop, too. It just seems to me that this skill is rather unique compared with actually learning to think IN Chinese.
Additionally, my experience with language-learning is that starting with the thought in English in my mind and then trying to convert that thought into another language on the fly introduces a lot of unnecessary thought processes at best and certain sentence structure errors at worst. Additionally, it also seems to me that such a process also encourages bad language habits.
Considering the value of learning to think in Chinese, an interesting question arises as well. Aside from tutoring, how can the internalization of Chinese be developed online, from a practicality standpoint? The only way I know of to develop this ability is to use Chinese actively, by engaging in some type of dialogue.
I suspect that all this may be a major topic of linguistics, especially when it comes to teaching the language...
Just my 2 分。 :-)
nurflight9 on September 20, 2010 | reply
After reading Bob's comment, (what with being an English teacher) I immediately tried to imagine how his suggestion could be put into practical application in an online course and kind of came up blank. (But I'm just thinking in terms of the podcasts, not the written exercises.) I like 安迪's comment about developing one's ability by constantly engaging in some type of dialogue, which I take to mean, on one's own in one's daily activities (assuming one is in China). I think, at least from the upper elementary and intermediate level, this approach beats them all. For some reason, when I try to approach studying Chinese from the other way---thinking something in English and trying to recall what the the Chinese equivalent is, it becomes laborious work. The Chinese dialogues, and particularly these with a funny twist and top-notch acting, on the other hand, seem to create comprehensive mental images, kind of like a verbal snapshot in my mind, where context is immediately apparent. So, when I encounter a situation, in my daily activities, where I need to call up vocab or structure I've learned in the Popup dialogues, the entire scene comes back to me (complete with the funny inflections) and I am able to integrate it in a much more natural way into my conversation. Of course, I don't always remember what I need perfectly, and sometimes only the scene pops up and the word or phrase eludes me (sigh), but then I just go home and listen to the dialogue again (they are so good, I don't get tired and bored listening again) and the next time I do better. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else...
walid.shaari on September 22, 2010 | reply
I am at the beginning of elementary level with around 500 chars in my pocket not living nor communicating with Chinese in daily basis apart from Echo on weekly basis. when i am doing my homework or trying to communicate with Echo,or another Chinese i usually start first how do i say it in English/Arabic then translate it and play with the structure in Chinese. even though i am bilingual it is not the same for Arabic and English, i do not think i just say it and some times i mix both with multilingual people like myself especially at my work environment where everyone speaks both.
I tend to agree with 安迪 that the more dialogs, sentences, idioms we are exposed too would help us think it and use the Chinese way without translating it first in our mind.
What i would really like to see as an addition to the current dialogs is an extra review one that is a question and answer based presenting a different point of view of the actual dialog. for example if i take just one line from a dialog
甲 :你知道我为什么喜欢泡泡中文吗？
so this could inspire several questions? what is popupchinese? since when you started listening to it? when do you often listen to this? ..etc with answers, these questions and answers if supplied in my opinions will add richness at least into the elementary and beginners level.
Jia You
chinopinyin on September 26, 2010 | reply
Mr T's suggestion is a great one. I have always wondered why there are no podcasts focussing on language production, rather than listening comprehension.
Popup Chinese could exploit this niche market and I feel it would be a great sucess.
The closest product I've seen focussing on language production (other than a teacher) is Pimsleur's course (Excellent though it is, the vocabulary is limited and could be more fun to listen to)
For elementary learners, I think that there is no alternative to English to Chinese translation, but for more advanced students one could easily produce a podcast using Chinese only to make you think (and speak) in Chinese