posted by Announcements on August 3, 2010 | 8 comments
We received an email today from a user today asking about our level system. This raised a number of questions we really haven't addressed adequately anywhere, so I wanted to start this post to explain our thinking behind our level system and solicit feedback. First of all, the background email:

I came as an absolute beginner and have made a lot of progress, but not as much as I'd like. Until recently I've been using Chinese Learn Online a lot, which I like, but when I tried PopupChinese I found I struggled to understand the elementary dialogues the first time round- mainly because the accent is very different to what I'm used to here and on other podcasts. I will be moving to Beijing in October, so I think PopupChinese will be invaluable in preparing me for the change in accent!

I really want to focus my studies more now and improve more quickly- I was a bit disappointed to see that I am currently struggling with your elementary level! I would like to know, what is the main difference between the different levels?

Because most people who buy language learning products are total beginners to the language, most commercial books and programs sell a progressive ladder approach: materials get more difficult over time and people are explicitly told what to study next. The problem is that it doesn't work for people who are past the very basics, and results in people eventually hitting a wall of frustration and wondering why they aren't making more progress. It isn't uncommon for people to reach the intermediate or advanced stages of these programs and come to China only to realize they can't communicate.

This is why we have only four levels: we don't think finer-grained distinctions are necessarily useful. Rather than think of the language learning process as a ladder, we think of it more as an expanding cone. The more you know the harder the fit to a mass course. This is why the fastest way to make progress is to work with a teacher for one-on-one lessons. One of the things we are committed to doing is making it less expensive for someone to get excellent one-on-one training than to signup for a night class or university program without that kind of individual feedback.

As a result, rather than create an explicitly hierarchical system which tells people what materials to study in what order. our level system is a rough categorization of materials by difficulty level. We do have our biases: we focus on the type of language we think provides the best framework for developing listening comprehension, which means a strong bias towards colloquial Chinese through the Intermediate level. It also means we avoid lessons that do what we call "noun stuffing" - randomly filling lessons with low-frequency nouns just to have something "difficult" to teach.

So when we categorize lessons, our focus is really on how much knowledge someone will need to be able to make them accessible. These are our rough criteria:

Absolute Beginner:

- focus on high frequency words and phrases

- simple sentences and clear speech

- little attempt to explain underlying grammar

- every lesson accessible to someone with no Chinese skills

- suitable for students with 1-6 months of language exposure

Elementary:

- focus on common words and phrases

- shorter sentences and more natural speech

- explanations of basic Chinese grammar points

- points made by native Chinese speaker are repeated in English

- suitable for students with up to 2 years of language exposure

Intermediate:

- focus on colloquial Chinese and natural sentence patterns

- more advanced grammar points that expect a familiarity with underlying Chinese grammar

- Chinese explanations are not immediately repeated in English, but eventually summarized

- suitable for students with up to 5 years of language exposure

Advanced:

- less emphasis on colloquial Chinese

- no holds barred on topics or conversation

- you are expected to follow full-speed native Chinese conversation

- intended for translators, Sinologists, bilingual professionals

We expect that university students with a year of study under their belt will start at the elementary level, and that students with two to three years of language study should be comfortable at the intermediate level. That said -- Chinese is a difficult language and there isn't any glossing over it. Our goal is to make it as easy as possible for people to push themselves to communicative fluency and provide the necessary tools (contextual mouseovers, line-by-line recordings, generative audio reviews) for even beginner students to tackle and understand more difficult materials.

What do you guys think?

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frances553 on August 3, 2010 | reply
Hi! It was me who wrote the email- thanks for your personal reply. I'll leave my comment on here.

What you have said clarifies things, and makes me feel better about falling under the 'elementary' tag! I totally agree with the decision to make the materials challenging, because that is exactly what you will encounter in China. Also, from what I have listened to so far, I think the things covered by Popup Chinese do seem to fill in gaps that haven't been covered elsewhere (although my Chinese study has been really random, so there are gaps everywhere!).

Personally I find that the elementary dialogues are clear once I have listened to the whole podcast, although at the moment the accent makes it harder for me to pick out every word. The grammar points and most basic vocabulary is all pretty familiar (but stuff that I need to keep going over). I have also listened to a couple of intermediate podcasts, and think those could be really useful as long as I have the support of the transcript.

I guess I'll pick some lessons that sound interesting or useful and start with those, and Ill probably work a bit at both levels.

As I said before, my study has been really random for various reasons, mainly because when you are in the country you can't control what level your interactions will be at. I think you progress at different levels in different things.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback! I'd be interested to know what other people who've used Popup Chinese for longer think about the levels...
frances553 on August 3, 2010 | reply
Oh, and another question- when you say universtiy students with a year of study under their belt do you mean people studying Chinese at university? That probably sounds like a really stupid question but I wanted to clarify!
Ralph.dratman on August 3, 2010 | reply
Your Elementary level is just right for me. I had a half-semester intensive class 40 years ago, and have practiced on any Mandarin speaker I could find since then, but those opportunities have been rare. thanks for making this material available.

I'm using an iPad right now, but the browser has some ease-of-use issues, such as the lack of tabs. Do you suggest a preferred platform and browser for your lessons?

Ralph
trevelyan on August 4, 2010 | reply
Frances,

Yes -- we meant people with a year or so of exposure to mandarin in a university course or its equivalent. A working knowledge of the tones, pinyin and the basics of reading and writing, along with perhaps a few hundred words.

Ralph,

I agree the iPhone/iPad version of Safari isn't ideal for what we're doing. Especially the single-tap to trigger the popups and double-tap to click on links. We've been developing a few iPhone apps to get familiar with the development environment for Apple tools and I'm hoping to put together a dedicated app for both the iPhone and iPad eventually. The iPad isn't technically on sale in China yet, but I've heard nothing but good things about it from Kaiser and Will and the Sinica crew.

Am hoping to pick one up in a few months. If you have suggestions on what you'd like to see in a dedicated app, let us know.

paulmccarthy79 on August 5, 2010 | reply
Hi guys,

I'm studying Mandarin at night school at the SOAS in London (www.soas.ac.uk) I also use Pop-up Chinese to top up what we learn there. I love the fact that it's in colloquial Chinese (I've lived in Taiwan before, so really notice the difference) and the leftfield, occasionally bizarre topics. I do agree that the Elementary dialogues take a while to get used to, but once I've listened to Echo repeating it slowly it's nearly always clear the second time round.

Keep up the great quality.

Paul
trevelyan on August 5, 2010 | reply
Thanks Paul, and welcome to the site. :)
Echo on August 5, 2010 | reply
@mccartpr,

Hi Paul,

Thanks. 欢迎你加入泡泡中文大家庭!

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com
scoff on August 8, 2010 | reply
I'm wondering if you guys have a firm schedule for how often you release lessons from each level? I ask mainly because although I'd be interested in signing up for the advanced series (love the 东北话 lesson), they seem to be fairly few and far between. I know this kind of question about the advanced materials has been asked before, but I was hoping for some updated info (please).

I'm also on the go a lot, so the annotated short stories aren't really much help there. Hopefully your new HSK app will be good company!
trevelyan on August 9, 2010 | reply
Hope you enjoy the HSK app scoff. We don't really have any sort of schedule for releasing content. We try to release four podcasts a week at different difficulty levels. The advanced materials tend to be somewhat fractured as well, since there are short stories and HSK tests in addition to podcasts.

As mentioned on a thread two weeks ago (?) we're planning to switch up the advanced podcast format come September and are hoping to have more regular material then.