It was strange that the headmaster had arranged their tour for the weekend. While it hadn't struck Monica as odd previously, now that they were walking through campus, the choice of days seemed peculiar. For despite the fact it was a sunny October afternoon, the school grounds were almost deserted. Save for the occasional schoolboy slouching home in the distance, there was nothing to be seen suggesting she and her husband were touring the most renowned international school in Beijing. Or any other school for that matter. And then they entered the buttery....

If you're living the expat life in China, you're doubtless familiar with the hordes of international schools scrambling over each other to educate your brood. Since you may not be intimately familiar with what a Chinese education involves, in this podcast we strip away the mystery and show you how the education system really works in China. And in the process, we illuminate a subtle difference between two very similar words that intermediate Chinese learners mix up all the time. So listen up and we hope you enjoy the show.
 said on
May 20, 2010
Nice quiz on this lesson. You should add these to more lessons!
 said on
May 20, 2010
What a strange dialogue.
 said on
May 20, 2010
The extra example sentences with translation given after the dialogue are a great addition to the lesson - helps me train my ear for improved listening comprehension.
 said on
May 22, 2010
"It's really important to us that the stuff we do is relevant to people" - David Lancashire, Blue Ocean Network. The problem I had with Chinesepod and that I now have with Popupchinese is that you are no more relevant than are Chinese textbooks with their equally surreal dialogues about 'oleanders in the courtyard'. The Chinese stuff is too stilted, yours too contrived. Both fail to deliver 'authentic, real-world and relevant' dialogues. I wish it were not so, but it is. Please stop trying to be overly entertaining and cool and let's have some real-world eminently practical and relevant content. Then I'll subscribe.
 said on
May 22, 2010
@davidwilljack,

Thanks for the feedback. I want to reply at length because I think your comment gets to the heart of how we do things and deserves a serious answer. But first let me say that if you have suggestions on specific dialogues you'd like to see and/or new formats you'd like us to try we would very honestly welcome them.

> The Chinese stuff is too stilted, yours too

> contrived. Both fail to deliver 'authentic,

> real-world and relevant' dialogues.

Our situations are often dramatized, but the language is not. The speaking patterns, cadence and speed of what we do is exactly what you'll hear in China. That is our criteria for relevance. What we consider irrelevant are lessons with names like "A Trip to the Museum" that introduce the names of 10 creatures from Jurassic Park. People can spend years listening to that stuff and never make any progress because the emphasis is in the wrong place. We focus on building up a comfort level with actual spoken Chinese.

Is the language here relevant? Let's take a look at a few of the lines in this dialogue:

你们这儿为什么会有这么多....

他们都是一流的,都是符合国际标准的

有点意思。就这么定了....

This is Chinese the way it is spoken. We feature more high frequency phrases and shorter patterns in our Elementary and Absolute Beginner materials. But we believe we would be doing our more advanced students a disservice by dumbing-down the Intermediate content. The biggest problem we see serious students have time and time again is failing to make it through conversations at normal speed because their comprehension drops halfway. Once people are comfortable with the way Chinese is spoken their brain parses around words they don't understand. Just like any other language. Learning comes more naturally.

All that said, if you have suggestions on what you'd like to see please do send them in. I'd be interested to learn what exactly it is you're looking for and if we can try it out we will. Practically speaking, we're all for letting 100 flowers bloom, trying different approaches and seeing what works for different people. And without the purges, either.

Best,

--david

 said on
May 22, 2010
David hi,

Appreciate your replying. Not sure you fully get my point. "Our situations are often dramatized, but the language is not. The speaking patterns, cadence and speed of what we do is exactly what you'll hear in China.' Well, not quite.

The language patterns you cited are all fine and dandy. I have no issue with those. In fact they're what are good. However, wouldn't 'surrealize' be a more fitting term rather than dramatize? Just as we can say about Chinese-produced texts: 'nobody talks like that in real life' we can say the same about the dialogue in this lesson. Yes, you can select out some generally applicable snippets, just as you can do from equally unreal Chinese texts, they have good generally applicable bits too, but the actual dialogue, may I be so bold to suggest, is more redolent of a bad trip than real-life. If you can get that 'the names of ten creatures from Jurassic Park' is just as irrelevant and unlikely to be encountered in any kind of real-world dialogue as 'zombie' then perhaps you can understand my desire to see the good language patterns that you do use embedded in a more congruent delivery vehicle ie a dialogue that has some earthly chance of actually being produced and retained by un-stoned, breathing, Mandarin-speaking humanoids: to echo the words of that most cunning linguist, Ali G: "Keep it real!". Rather than dumbing-down, I believe this would add value. People remember what they can use. The brain can more readily absorb the good stuff in these dialogues when it doesn't have to censor out impractical tosh. So that's what I'd like to see. Is it asking too much?
 said on
May 23, 2010
@davidwilljack,

Yes, the dialogues are sometimes surreal, overacted, improvised and understated. Occasionally even disgusting. But hopefully memorable. I disagree that the word zombie is not intermediate level content or is impractical (金刚 is also surprisingly useful), but all feedback is appreciated.

If you can take a moment to write up a dialogue or two you think exemplifies the kind of relevance you're looking for (even in English) please do send it along to us. There's no hypothetical limit to the number of lesson series we can run, so even if things don't fit within an existing lesson series, it's always possible to find new ways of doing things. Also, since we plan to be recording until the heat death of the universe, constant experimentation is a good thing.

Best,

--david

 said on
May 23, 2010
David,

It seems the supposition is that if the story is memorable then students will necessarily retain the lexis. But what will actually be retained: will it be the whacky form or the usable content? Does the one enhance or detract from the other? (I obviously believe it's an impoverishment, feel free to disagree). All my experience tells me that an organic and naturally-occuring, rather than contrived for effect, congruence between form and content is what facilitates retention since we can anchor it in our real-life experiences. Below is a page opened at random from a Chinese-produced book: Fluent Chinese. The form and content is congruent. There is no need to make the dialogue surreal or phantasmagorical for it be retained or to be useful since it's real-worldliness is sufficient in itself. I think the difference between them is that you could conceivably imagine, without too great a stretch of the imagination, two real-world people having this conversation. You could not say the same about the 'zombie' lesson. It is essentially contrived and unreal. So I'm curious: Why do you believe that essentially fake and contrived dialogues are a superior delivery vehicle for language than natural ones: presumably you have a reason? Is there some theoretical basis for this approach in linguistics? I'd like to understand the thinking behind it even though as I say, for me it's a hindrance rather than something that facilitates my learning since it gives my brain the added task of selecting truth from fantasy when it already has enough to do to learn the new. From the point of view of Input Method Theory, the closer linguistic input is to real-world the easier it is to output real-world. That's certainly been my experience.

* Ting1 shuo1 ni3 zhei4zhong3 xing2hao2 de qi4che2 yi3hou4 yi2lu4 bu4xu3 kai1 le

*Wei4shen2me

*Ting1 shuo1 shi4 wei4le jie2yue1 neng2yuan2

*Zhe4 jian3zhi2 tai4 li2pu3 le. Ye3 bu4 neng2 zhei4yang4 jie2yue4 ya!

Best,

David
 said on
May 23, 2010
Erratum: xing2hao4, yi1lu4 (umlaut)(Apologies: can't write Hanzi)
 said on
May 23, 2010
@davidwilljack,

We have dialogue recording sessions pretty much every Wednesday evening. I can't see us putting such a straightforward dialogue up at the Intermediate level, but we can edit, record and publish any dialogues you send in to get them online and get the materials out there for people.

We can try with this first one and see how it goes. If you'd like to pass along any more scripts (pinyin is fine) we're happy to record and upload the materials as dialogue-only lessons archived under your name or under a separate lesson series. As long as the workload is tolerable I think it's a good idea. And all you need to do is take us up on the offer. :)

Best,

--david

 said on
May 23, 2010
I already have these dialogues so what would be the point? They are someone else's creativity so although some people would doubtless find them useful, it wouldn't be right. I'm sure you and your team are more than able to produce your own stuff in a similar vein, if you really wanted to without any input from me.
 said on
May 23, 2010
Let me chip in as a longtime listener and strongly request Popup Chinese steers clear of the sort of bland and useless language learning pablum recommended above. Or hide it in a corner if you do produce it. I like this place because the materials are interesting and they make my Chinese better. End of story. That's your strong point.

People who define relevance in terms of learning particular words are clearly not at the intermediate level. And they should use a dictionary. The point of lengthy audio is to provide exposure, exposure, exposure to actual speech. Also, don't let people call you out on relevance. Especially when most people will say 省电 instead of 节约能源. Keep the focus on colloquial Chinese and I will continue to subscribe. And quite happily too.

 said on
May 24, 2010
Agreed. The insane dialogues are the reason I subscribe. My textbook, "New Practical Chinese Reader" is full of useful lexical terms and structures... It's definitely practical, but it is tedious! I have to force myself to study it.. Lessons like 'The Gay Vampire' (my personal favourite) not only break the monotony but have taught me loads. I keep coming across grammar points and vocab in NPCR which I understand because you guys have covered it- and in a way that doesn't put me to sleep or go make yet another cup of tea.

 said on
May 26, 2010
I think the lessons are relevant, interesting and useful. I have been speaking Chinese now for 30 years and still learn new things in almost every lesson.

As to relevance, I used zombie (僵尸) in a senior business meeting a couple weeks ago when analyzing financial statements (to describe Lenovo's current financial problems) and again when hanging out at a bar with friends (to describe they way a friend danced).

Not sure about everyone else, but I like to have fun with language regardless of whether I am speaking in English or Chinese. There are so many good lessons that I cannot pick a favorite. How can you choose between 'The Toilet Plunger' and 'The Gay Vampire?' I always look forward to hearing the next podcast.

David, keep up the good work.

 said on
May 26, 2010
Agreed that the novelty and challenge have value even to beginners like myself. There has to be a balance between basics and novelty/interest. I think the balance here is about right, especially if this is not your only resource. The trick to learning languages is motivation and multiple learning methods. Fortunately, this seems to be the golden era of language learning, given the volume of low cost learning content.
 said on
June 16, 2010
The insane dialogs are really good because they stand out, I can easily substitute 'zombie' with any number of goods or achievements in this situation. Don't be so pedantic. I think most of the onus is on the learner, especially if he or she is an adult, to engage themselves with the content in an authentic manner, especially WHEN IT'S JUST A PODCAST AND IS (I HOPE TO GOD) ONLY SUPPLEMENTAL TO THE LARGER LEARNING PROCESS.

That being said, I'm kind of confused as how 起到 works in this. I know that both characters individually can mean result, or arrival, but why are they used together, and why not "le"? Could you give an example of qi3dao4 in another context? Thanks
 said on
July 19, 2010
@greatgil,

起到 means in resulting. We always say 起到...作用,起到...帮助 or 起到...效果 in Chinese. For instance, 他在这里没起到什么作用 (he's not of any use here).到 is the complement of the verb 起. You can choose to use 了 as same as in other sentences.

@oliver.holton,

谢谢,如果你有什么对话的建议,也欢迎告诉我们呀!

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com

 said on
September 13, 2010
Interesting to see the comments on this lesson, I learn Chinese almost entirely from the bright, spangley, surreal bits that I find in real life. Assuming that I find them (and there are a lot) it really makes it much easier to remember what I have learned and link things together. I think the lessons here are great, most of the language is easy to adapt to more 'real' situations. Luckily I don't have lessons or courses etc. and some may say that I am not

I hope you don't mind, I published a small part of my internal brain workings based on hearing this lesson as a sound file here (the second one on the posting): http://friedelcraft.blogspot.com/2010/09/chinese-voices.html

When I heard the lesson, I imagined a film and the advert that might go with it.

Hope you don't mind, I didn't re-use any of your sound.
 said on
September 26, 2010
Once again late to the discussion. The dialogs are both interesting and creative which results in motivation to learn more Chinese. It is also a rewarding bonus to walk up to your Chinese friends and engage them in the subjects covered in Popup Chinese. Thats what sets this site apart from all other language programs. The dialogs are witty and interesting even to native speakers (generally speaking). Every lesson focuses on a larger grammatical pattern which goes way beyond the immediate subject manner of the dialog. Its only when you learn slang and speak naturally that you begin to make real connections with native speakers of Chinese.
 said on
May 3, 2012
This discussion is long dead, but since I'm asking questions I might as well throw in my support too. I love that Popup Chinese is so weird. I just bought one of them graded readers for Chinese, and although the language is simple and unfrustrating, the content is so boring that I haven't even finished the first chapter. With Popup Chinese I have to restrain myself not to listen to the next episode about transsexual spacegoats heavily indebted by too much plastic surgery. Yeah, there's a plot for you, right there ;)

So, onto the questions:

1. In the second line, what is 会 doing?

2. Is 之后 identical to 以后?
 said on
May 4, 2012
@mtpastille,

Thanks for your support mtpastille, our 老大 called those weird but brilliant contents conflicts.^^

Now to the questions:

1.会 has the meaning of 'can', with it here the sentence can be translated as 'why there can be so many zombies?', although it's abnormal in English. But if you delete it, the sentence is still OK. In Chinese, 会 sometimes just like plus sign in front of a number, making no big difference.

2.Yes, it is.

--Amber

amber@popupchinese.com
 said on
May 4, 2012
Thanks Amber!
 said on
May 5, 2012
@mtpastille,

谢谢你这么喜欢我们 :)

Amber has answered your questions, but there is something I'd like to add:

1 It means "possible" there. Like in this sentence: 我怎么会知道?(How could I possibly know)

2 Not really. You can simply look at 以后 as from now on or from then on. For example, you can say 以后我们就是朋友了. (From now on, we are friends.) However, when you use 之后,you usually need to give people a condition, and you can use 之后 alone. Like in the dialogue, "孩子们和僵尸成为朋友之后...", you will need to provide the condition 孩子们和僵尸成为朋友. So you can use 之后 as after something happened (and you always need to let people know what has happened).

--Echo

echo@popupchinese.com
 said on
May 5, 2012
Perfect, clearly explained :)
 said on
October 2, 2012
I just listened to this lesson, and I'm late to the discussion as per - won't stop me from chipping in tho :)

I've worked as a language teacher for about 5 years now, and there's a common myth amongst language learners that learning the language and learning how to have a conversation are one and the same. Vocabulary and grammar can be taught, but as any fluent second language speaker will tell you, conversation is a skill that needs to be learned, and can't be taught.

One simply cannot learn "useful" sentences and parrot them back in the hope of having a conversation. Since no teacher can predict what the content of your conversations will be in the future, the example dialogues given that contain the target grammar and vocabulary may as well be about zombies and gay vampires as much as it may be about buying train tickets or some such stock situation from any language textbook - just because the context may be contrived/wacky/offensive, doesn't mean that the vocabulary or the grammar is going to be wrong.
 said on
November 26, 2013
I'm a little confused by this expression 就这么定了 I understand 定了 means 'decided'/'fixed'.

But I thought 这么 means 'so' as in 'that boy is so tall'. We are translating this here as 'So it's a deal then'.

Are we using 这么 if we were to translate directly to say something like "it has been 'so' decided"?
 said on
November 26, 2013
@donalthurley,

It's "In this way" rather than "so" in this context. The meaning is closer to "so" or "so very much like this" if it is used preceding an adjective (这么好,etc.)

Best,

--david
 said on
March 2, 2016
I support popup Chinese a thousand percent, and for the following reason: as a learner abroad, it is extremely difficult to acquire the Chinese language, surely one of the more difficult languages for English speakers to acquire. The fact that the dialogues are amusing goes a very very long way towards making me continue. I'm sure if I followed the suggestions of the original commentor I would have given up long ago in total boredom and frustration. Keep up the good work you guys and don't listen to the naysayers!